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	<title>Comments on: Creativity, Classical Chinese Medicine and our right to be wrong</title>
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	<link>http://deepesthealth.com/2008/creativity-classical-chinese-medicine-and-our-right-to-be-wrong/</link>
	<description>Learning Chinese Medicine and letting it inform all aspects of life</description>
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		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://deepesthealth.com/2008/creativity-classical-chinese-medicine-and-our-right-to-be-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-1786</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 21:50:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deepesthealth.com/?p=317#comment-1786</guid>
		<description>Hello Louis,

Exciting to see another great thinker hoping to join the program -- looks like our future classes are going to be great ones!

I totally agree that the overwhelming presence of the worldview I was discussing does not demonstrate its rightness.  But some certainly think so...

Thanks for your fine comment. Keep it up!

Eric</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello Louis,</p>
<p>Exciting to see another great thinker hoping to join the program &#8212; looks like our future classes are going to be great ones!</p>
<p>I totally agree that the overwhelming presence of the worldview I was discussing does not demonstrate its rightness.  But some certainly think so&#8230;</p>
<p>Thanks for your fine comment. Keep it up!</p>
<p>Eric</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://deepesthealth.com/2008/creativity-classical-chinese-medicine-and-our-right-to-be-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-1785</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 21:40:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deepesthealth.com/?p=317#comment-1785</guid>
		<description>Hey Anonymous,

Thanks so much for your comment.  I&#039;m glad we&#039;ll have a thinker like you joining us - be sure to say hi when you see me around.

Regarding the program - the thing that is so perfect about it is its openness.  Everything is there, all of the pieces can be used.  There are very scholarly elements - even rote memorization!  There are deeply spiritual, creative, even musical elements!  There is space for writing, for reading, for deep thinking.  It depends entirely on how you use it and how far you are willing to go. Folks who expect everything to be done for them are generally disappointed in the program.  Folks who know what they want and set out to get it easily do so.

Regarding being in the role of health practitioner -- well, it&#039;s a work in progress.  I have to admit that I&#039;m frightened a bit about clinic, but also so very excited.  I&#039;m very anxious to see how the various pieces of me will play into my development as a needler and prescriber of formulas.  I&#039;ll definitely be sharing more of the journey as I go.

Again, thanks for the comment - be sure to come back and share more of your thoughts.

Eric</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Anonymous,</p>
<p>Thanks so much for your comment.  I&#8217;m glad we&#8217;ll have a thinker like you joining us &#8211; be sure to say hi when you see me around.</p>
<p>Regarding the program &#8211; the thing that is so perfect about it is its openness.  Everything is there, all of the pieces can be used.  There are very scholarly elements &#8211; even rote memorization!  There are deeply spiritual, creative, even musical elements!  There is space for writing, for reading, for deep thinking.  It depends entirely on how you use it and how far you are willing to go. Folks who expect everything to be done for them are generally disappointed in the program.  Folks who know what they want and set out to get it easily do so.</p>
<p>Regarding being in the role of health practitioner &#8212; well, it&#8217;s a work in progress.  I have to admit that I&#8217;m frightened a bit about clinic, but also so very excited.  I&#8217;m very anxious to see how the various pieces of me will play into my development as a needler and prescriber of formulas.  I&#8217;ll definitely be sharing more of the journey as I go.</p>
<p>Again, thanks for the comment &#8211; be sure to come back and share more of your thoughts.</p>
<p>Eric</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://deepesthealth.com/2008/creativity-classical-chinese-medicine-and-our-right-to-be-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-1783</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 03:38:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deepesthealth.com/?p=317#comment-1783</guid>
		<description>Hi Eric,

Thank you so much for the inspiring and thought-provoking blog you manage.  This particular entry really spoke to me.  I am hoping to begin NCNM&#039;s program in CCM this coming year.  I have an M.A. in French Lang/Lit and have been teaching for a number of years.  I felt a similar struggle while in grad school.  I loved the exchange of ideas in academia, but there was something &quot;dead&quot; about it to me.  I kept wondering what the real point of it all was, if the poetic analyses did not leave the ivory tower that is (often) academia.  I&#039;m still not sure what I think about the academic writing style.  I love to write, and my writing was certainly challenged, if stilted, by the constraints of the academic model, of the necessary dialoging and interfacing of my ideas with quotes from other writers.  I currently teach Spanish at a Waldorf school, and seeing the inner workings of this &quot;alternative&quot; educational system close up has been a revelation.  NCNM&#039;s program in CCM seems to embody a similar holistic educational model which I so crave to experience!  I am drawn to what I perceive to be a mix of academic rigor, a deep exploration of the culture that has formed Chinese medicine (is there perhaps an anthropological piece to the program?), and an interweaving of the inherent spiritual nature of the medicine.  To me, the idea of studying such a system in a scholarly, creative and personal way, and then being able to apply it something so immediate and meaningful as healing, is thrilling.  The only piece that I wonder about is if there is a place for writing, which is something I so love.  I also wonder about being in the role of health practitioner.  How have these things fallen into place for you?  I would love to hear more about your journey thus far.  Thanks again for all your sharing!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Eric,</p>
<p>Thank you so much for the inspiring and thought-provoking blog you manage.  This particular entry really spoke to me.  I am hoping to begin NCNM&#8217;s program in CCM this coming year.  I have an M.A. in French Lang/Lit and have been teaching for a number of years.  I felt a similar struggle while in grad school.  I loved the exchange of ideas in academia, but there was something &#8220;dead&#8221; about it to me.  I kept wondering what the real point of it all was, if the poetic analyses did not leave the ivory tower that is (often) academia.  I&#8217;m still not sure what I think about the academic writing style.  I love to write, and my writing was certainly challenged, if stilted, by the constraints of the academic model, of the necessary dialoging and interfacing of my ideas with quotes from other writers.  I currently teach Spanish at a Waldorf school, and seeing the inner workings of this &#8220;alternative&#8221; educational system close up has been a revelation.  NCNM&#8217;s program in CCM seems to embody a similar holistic educational model which I so crave to experience!  I am drawn to what I perceive to be a mix of academic rigor, a deep exploration of the culture that has formed Chinese medicine (is there perhaps an anthropological piece to the program?), and an interweaving of the inherent spiritual nature of the medicine.  To me, the idea of studying such a system in a scholarly, creative and personal way, and then being able to apply it something so immediate and meaningful as healing, is thrilling.  The only piece that I wonder about is if there is a place for writing, which is something I so love.  I also wonder about being in the role of health practitioner.  How have these things fallen into place for you?  I would love to hear more about your journey thus far.  Thanks again for all your sharing!</p>
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		<title>By: Louis.</title>
		<link>http://deepesthealth.com/2008/creativity-classical-chinese-medicine-and-our-right-to-be-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-1765</link>
		<dc:creator>Louis.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 06:12:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deepesthealth.com/?p=317#comment-1765</guid>
		<description>This post really resonated with me and I&#039;d like to share some thoughts as one your readers who aren&#039;t yet scholars or particularly educated, haha. (i&#039;m trying!)

A little about me: I&#039;m 23. I am interested in the teachings and practices of all &quot;religious&quot; traditions (I take a sort of syncretic approach),  and particularly I&#039;ve practiced Taiji on and off through a few years. Now i&#039;m going to school full time working towards a B.A. in Philosophy, emphasis: religious studies and I hope to start at NCNM in 2010 or 2011. 

Since I was very young I&#039;ve been deeply troubled by the insane immensity of violence that this culture necesitates for it&#039;s functioning and it&#039;s always been apparent to me there must be something seriously warped or out of balance about our worldview and way of life. It is obsessed with unlimited growth of power and control, not growth in relationship and experience, self awareness and spirit and love, community and connection, nor growth in purpose and meaning and vision. To me it seems a sort of arrogance, an adolescent sense of invincibility and entitlement that must be done away with to make room for a more mature sense of interdependence with and responsibility to the community of life. I believe humanity is faced with an increasingly serious crisis of collapsing social/ecological structures and as all of it is shifting and changing and disintegrating there is the opportunity for humanity to come back to ourselves, to &quot;grow up&quot;. That once we submit control and move back into relationship WITH rather than OVER then we will find we are more connected to REAL power than ever imagined in our fantasy of domination.

Just because the frustrating worldview you described has overpowered other worldviews in our cultures day and age says nothing of it&#039;s rightness, greatness or destiny. It means that we live in a system that selects for short term power rather than for compassion or sanity or even long term survival. It&#039;s so hard to remember that this worldview is not the be all and end all. To remember that humans have a long history of living much more in touch with the natural world, more sustainably, communally and spiritually. THAT is who we are.

An inner voice tells us that there is more to reality than we are presented with, and I think this reality transcends reason rather than completely rejecting it.

&quot;The last vestitude of reason is to recognize that there is an infinity of things which are beyond it. It is but feeble if it does not see so far as to know this.&quot; - Pascal

This is what the &quot;age of reason&quot; does not want to admit.

But out of all this chaos I believe order and balance can come to be. I&#039;m starting to see our current situation as like a terribly tragic adolescent phase. Our infantile phase mythologized as our &quot;origins in eden&quot;, then an adolescent &quot;fall&quot;, and potentially a progression towards a new kind of eden. In Jewish Kabbalah it is described as a &quot;lower/inferior&quot; eden of our origins and a &quot;higher/superior&quot; eden of our destiny. Whereas our edenic past was lived out of a sense of innocent ignorance, we simply knew no other way to live. Now we must use our reason to realize that it is a better way to live and to understand why.

I don&#039;t think this is a &quot;close your eyes tightly and hope for a better future kind of stance&quot; It is a participatory experience and it relies on our efforts, our cultivation, to come to fruition. People putting forth efforts like yours, Eric, are at the forefront of this important quest for the collective mind. Keep it up.

&quot;Be bold and mighty forces will come to your aid&quot; - Basil King</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This post really resonated with me and I&#8217;d like to share some thoughts as one your readers who aren&#8217;t yet scholars or particularly educated, haha. (i&#8217;m trying!)</p>
<p>A little about me: I&#8217;m 23. I am interested in the teachings and practices of all &#8220;religious&#8221; traditions (I take a sort of syncretic approach),  and particularly I&#8217;ve practiced Taiji on and off through a few years. Now i&#8217;m going to school full time working towards a B.A. in Philosophy, emphasis: religious studies and I hope to start at NCNM in 2010 or 2011. </p>
<p>Since I was very young I&#8217;ve been deeply troubled by the insane immensity of violence that this culture necesitates for it&#8217;s functioning and it&#8217;s always been apparent to me there must be something seriously warped or out of balance about our worldview and way of life. It is obsessed with unlimited growth of power and control, not growth in relationship and experience, self awareness and spirit and love, community and connection, nor growth in purpose and meaning and vision. To me it seems a sort of arrogance, an adolescent sense of invincibility and entitlement that must be done away with to make room for a more mature sense of interdependence with and responsibility to the community of life. I believe humanity is faced with an increasingly serious crisis of collapsing social/ecological structures and as all of it is shifting and changing and disintegrating there is the opportunity for humanity to come back to ourselves, to &#8220;grow up&#8221;. That once we submit control and move back into relationship WITH rather than OVER then we will find we are more connected to REAL power than ever imagined in our fantasy of domination.</p>
<p>Just because the frustrating worldview you described has overpowered other worldviews in our cultures day and age says nothing of it&#8217;s rightness, greatness or destiny. It means that we live in a system that selects for short term power rather than for compassion or sanity or even long term survival. It&#8217;s so hard to remember that this worldview is not the be all and end all. To remember that humans have a long history of living much more in touch with the natural world, more sustainably, communally and spiritually. THAT is who we are.</p>
<p>An inner voice tells us that there is more to reality than we are presented with, and I think this reality transcends reason rather than completely rejecting it.</p>
<p>&#8220;The last vestitude of reason is to recognize that there is an infinity of things which are beyond it. It is but feeble if it does not see so far as to know this.&#8221; &#8211; Pascal</p>
<p>This is what the &#8220;age of reason&#8221; does not want to admit.</p>
<p>But out of all this chaos I believe order and balance can come to be. I&#8217;m starting to see our current situation as like a terribly tragic adolescent phase. Our infantile phase mythologized as our &#8220;origins in eden&#8221;, then an adolescent &#8220;fall&#8221;, and potentially a progression towards a new kind of eden. In Jewish Kabbalah it is described as a &#8220;lower/inferior&#8221; eden of our origins and a &#8220;higher/superior&#8221; eden of our destiny. Whereas our edenic past was lived out of a sense of innocent ignorance, we simply knew no other way to live. Now we must use our reason to realize that it is a better way to live and to understand why.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think this is a &#8220;close your eyes tightly and hope for a better future kind of stance&#8221; It is a participatory experience and it relies on our efforts, our cultivation, to come to fruition. People putting forth efforts like yours, Eric, are at the forefront of this important quest for the collective mind. Keep it up.</p>
<p>&#8220;Be bold and mighty forces will come to your aid&#8221; &#8211; Basil King</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://deepesthealth.com/2008/creativity-classical-chinese-medicine-and-our-right-to-be-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-1762</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 16:44:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deepesthealth.com/?p=317#comment-1762</guid>
		<description>Hey Bex,

I agree that it&#039;s a black and white kind of way of looking at things.  Of course the typical academic often uses the whole of their Self, but many are not aware of it.  I was in line to academia - headed to Purdue to study Philosophy with hopes to be a professor.  I&#039;m aware of how the world works and how much diversity there is within it.

The fact remains that to really succeed on a professional level in your average academic position, you have to learn to write in a particular way, talk in a particular way, etc...  Most of my first grad school career consisted of learning how to write less creatively.  I think it&#039;s a tragedy how long it&#039;s taken me to get away from that.

Our program is different because our medicine is different, which was my point.  The medicine by its nature encourages whole-life integration and our program has lots of right-left brain work mixed in (Qigong, Paul Kalnins, the language itself).  While we are encouraged to study in a scholarly manner, the medicine doesn&#039;t really allow for it - particularly the deeper we go.  We have examples of profs who have managed to over intellectualize the medicine and those who haven&#039;t managed to intellectualize it at all, but it&#039;s definitely harder to do than it was in academic philosophy.  At least for me.

I disagree, by the way, that creative/dancing/theatrically minded people couldn&#039;t have the discussion we&#039;re having here in the format we&#039;re having here.  I disagree, in fact, that writing/researching is something these folks couldn&#039;t or wouldn&#039;t participate in.  They would simply do it differently.

My point - ultimately - is that the BEST THINKING in any field is done outside of the strict left-brained method that so many people worship in our culture.  Many people try to deny the way that we think about the human body, the universe and our medicine by referring to the standards set out by that way of seeing human experience.  I have had a hard time working with folks who use that mode of attack.  I don&#039;t have that hard time anymore.

Does that make sense?  No ass kicking necessary because I think we&#039;re thinking the same thing.  

Eric</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Bex,</p>
<p>I agree that it&#8217;s a black and white kind of way of looking at things.  Of course the typical academic often uses the whole of their Self, but many are not aware of it.  I was in line to academia &#8211; headed to Purdue to study Philosophy with hopes to be a professor.  I&#8217;m aware of how the world works and how much diversity there is within it.</p>
<p>The fact remains that to really succeed on a professional level in your average academic position, you have to learn to write in a particular way, talk in a particular way, etc&#8230;  Most of my first grad school career consisted of learning how to write less creatively.  I think it&#8217;s a tragedy how long it&#8217;s taken me to get away from that.</p>
<p>Our program is different because our medicine is different, which was my point.  The medicine by its nature encourages whole-life integration and our program has lots of right-left brain work mixed in (Qigong, Paul Kalnins, the language itself).  While we are encouraged to study in a scholarly manner, the medicine doesn&#8217;t really allow for it &#8211; particularly the deeper we go.  We have examples of profs who have managed to over intellectualize the medicine and those who haven&#8217;t managed to intellectualize it at all, but it&#8217;s definitely harder to do than it was in academic philosophy.  At least for me.</p>
<p>I disagree, by the way, that creative/dancing/theatrically minded people couldn&#8217;t have the discussion we&#8217;re having here in the format we&#8217;re having here.  I disagree, in fact, that writing/researching is something these folks couldn&#8217;t or wouldn&#8217;t participate in.  They would simply do it differently.</p>
<p>My point &#8211; ultimately &#8211; is that the BEST THINKING in any field is done outside of the strict left-brained method that so many people worship in our culture.  Many people try to deny the way that we think about the human body, the universe and our medicine by referring to the standards set out by that way of seeing human experience.  I have had a hard time working with folks who use that mode of attack.  I don&#8217;t have that hard time anymore.</p>
<p>Does that make sense?  No ass kicking necessary because I think we&#8217;re thinking the same thing.  </p>
<p>Eric</p>
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		<title>By: Bex</title>
		<link>http://deepesthealth.com/2008/creativity-classical-chinese-medicine-and-our-right-to-be-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-1761</link>
		<dc:creator>Bex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 16:33:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deepesthealth.com/?p=317#comment-1761</guid>
		<description>So, I watched the video and I thought it was great. There are a few things I wanted to comment on about the discussion that you have started afterwards. I am a little hesitant to make some of these comments because of the struggle that you described, but I am hoping that we can have an honest discussion about this and not take anything too personally! If you don&#039;t like it, you can always kick my ass one day when I&#039;m coming down the stairs. :)

Being the mother of a very physical little person, who is certainly not going to be an academic...I understand all too well the limited resources that are available to us. I have spent the last year trying to find a public, or affordable, school that we can send him to, where he will be allowed to let his body work for the larger portion of the day. Most likely, he will be homeschooled, with a hefty portion of community center classes and involvement in sports, because I am unable to find something that I feel would really work with his body in a proper way.

Being that I am also married to an academic who was well on his way to university professor before we had a child, I also understand the validity of that world. Were that world not in existence, you wouldn&#039;t have this blog right now. I don&#039;t know that I would describe that world as utterly &quot;left-brained,&quot; though my husband and I both have physics degrees, and this is a science that requires a high level of creativity in order to succeed -- at least in the areas we were working in. Logic and creativity often go together, and it&#039;s not horrible for a PORTION of our species to be focused on those things. What I find horrible is that the logic-loving, &quot;university professor&quot; mentality has overriden all other forms of intelligence within Western society. (Through lots of work in early 20&#039;s, I came to the conclusion that I could be a feminist and still like men. Men are a necessary part of society, but our society became unbalanced. This is a similar problem.)

I find it interesting that we are discussing this situation, being that we are both two members of what is probably the most academic Chinese medicine program we could have chosen. We opted out of the trade-school type TCM schools, and chose to go to a school that creates &quot;scholars.&quot; Right? Well, what is a university professor? 
When he was mentioning the party that all of the university professors were attending, but most of them were waiting to go home and write papers about it, how is that so different than what goes on here? Aren&#039;t you observing a lot of what you read and what goes on in your life and wondering what your next blog entry could be?

It is impossible for many of the creative, dancing, theatrically minded people he was talking about to even have the discussion in the format that we are using here. This format is scholarly-university-professor by it&#039;s very nature...and we have the privilege to use it because we are functioning members of the academia that has created the systems we were schooled in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, I watched the video and I thought it was great. There are a few things I wanted to comment on about the discussion that you have started afterwards. I am a little hesitant to make some of these comments because of the struggle that you described, but I am hoping that we can have an honest discussion about this and not take anything too personally! If you don&#8217;t like it, you can always kick my ass one day when I&#8217;m coming down the stairs. :)</p>
<p>Being the mother of a very physical little person, who is certainly not going to be an academic&#8230;I understand all too well the limited resources that are available to us. I have spent the last year trying to find a public, or affordable, school that we can send him to, where he will be allowed to let his body work for the larger portion of the day. Most likely, he will be homeschooled, with a hefty portion of community center classes and involvement in sports, because I am unable to find something that I feel would really work with his body in a proper way.</p>
<p>Being that I am also married to an academic who was well on his way to university professor before we had a child, I also understand the validity of that world. Were that world not in existence, you wouldn&#8217;t have this blog right now. I don&#8217;t know that I would describe that world as utterly &#8220;left-brained,&#8221; though my husband and I both have physics degrees, and this is a science that requires a high level of creativity in order to succeed &#8212; at least in the areas we were working in. Logic and creativity often go together, and it&#8217;s not horrible for a PORTION of our species to be focused on those things. What I find horrible is that the logic-loving, &#8220;university professor&#8221; mentality has overriden all other forms of intelligence within Western society. (Through lots of work in early 20&#8217;s, I came to the conclusion that I could be a feminist and still like men. Men are a necessary part of society, but our society became unbalanced. This is a similar problem.)</p>
<p>I find it interesting that we are discussing this situation, being that we are both two members of what is probably the most academic Chinese medicine program we could have chosen. We opted out of the trade-school type TCM schools, and chose to go to a school that creates &#8220;scholars.&#8221; Right? Well, what is a university professor?<br />
When he was mentioning the party that all of the university professors were attending, but most of them were waiting to go home and write papers about it, how is that so different than what goes on here? Aren&#8217;t you observing a lot of what you read and what goes on in your life and wondering what your next blog entry could be?</p>
<p>It is impossible for many of the creative, dancing, theatrically minded people he was talking about to even have the discussion in the format that we are using here. This format is scholarly-university-professor by it&#8217;s very nature&#8230;and we have the privilege to use it because we are functioning members of the academia that has created the systems we were schooled in.</p>
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		<title>By: Fiddling with things : Deepest Health upgrade &#124; Deepest Health: Exploring Classical Chinese Medicine</title>
		<link>http://deepesthealth.com/2008/creativity-classical-chinese-medicine-and-our-right-to-be-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-1760</link>
		<dc:creator>Fiddling with things : Deepest Health upgrade &#124; Deepest Health: Exploring Classical Chinese Medicine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jun 2008 19:12:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deepesthealth.com/?p=317#comment-1760</guid>
		<description>[...] you read the site by feedreader or email subscription, the video on the last post might not have come through.  It is worth your time to visit the site to watch the video.  I [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] you read the site by feedreader or email subscription, the video on the last post might not have come through.  It is worth your time to visit the site to watch the video.  I [...]</p>
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