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	<title>Comments on: Chinese herb prescribers : it&#8217;s ok to use Mahuang</title>
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	<link>http://deepesthealth.com/chinese-herbal-medicine/mahuang-ephedra-and-its-utter-legality-for-chinese-medicine-practitioners/</link>
	<description>Chinese Medicine</description>
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		<title>By: Kvn Lu</title>
		<link>http://deepesthealth.com/chinese-herbal-medicine/mahuang-ephedra-and-its-utter-legality-for-chinese-medicine-practitioners/#comment-2783</link>
		<dc:creator>Kvn Lu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jan 2012 22:35:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deepesthealth.com/2009/mahuang-ephedra-and-its-utter-legality-for-chinese-medicine-practitioners/#comment-2783</guid>
		<description>Hi Delli, 

You made a great point here! I always say to my patients and colleagues that studying herbs by isolating the effective extracts and therapeutic ingredients is not the correct approach. TCM originally uses four Qi, five Wei (flavours) and meridian attribution (Gui Jing) to describe herbs&#039; function but not the ingredients such as ephedra or ephedine. Moreover, there are interactions between herbs in a formula decotion or other forms, which is exceptionally complicated and researching this by modern scientific ways are impracticable. It is like there is no way to find out what exactly meridians (Jing Luo) are by just &quot;guessing&quot; that they might be the communicative part of nervous system, circulatory system and lymph system. Therefore, it is completely wrong to regulate herbs under modern scientific standard. We should regulate the qualifications of practitioners instead of herbs. There is a Chinese term saying that every herb is more or less toxic (是藥三分毒shi yao san fen du). It&#039;s very important that we should grasp what &quot;toxin&quot; means. First of all, the toxic effect is actually the therapeutic effect! Simply speaking, every herb has its yin or yang deviation, in another word, warm or cold nature, in order to correct the imbalance of yin and yang of the body. Hotter or colder means it is more toxic. Secondly, toxic effect is relative. Different people of different constitutions and syndrome differentiations have different response to the same &quot;toxin&quot;. To a person with yin deficiency and internal heat constitution, a piece of ginger is toxic for him or her. While a person suffering Bi syndrome with cold dampness and qi and blood deficiency, large amount of dried ginger and Fu zi are pleased for him or her. I used 20 grams of Ma huang (I usually use 2 to 4 grams in wind cold external syndromes and asthma) in a formula for a female patient who suffers dermatosclerosis for one year and she felt generally warm and significant released of joint pain and neck stiffness after taking the tea. Lastly, comparing to Chinese herbs, western drugs are more toxic. Ridiculously, people are willing to take them everyday! Nowadays, people don&#039;t know yin and yang, don&#039;t know balance, don&#039;t know the rule of nature, don&#039;t sleep until midnight, drink cold drinks and eat cold fruits everyday, they don&#039;t know how to prevent hypertension, diabetes, high cholesteral and cancer, they are told and actually misled to take miscellaneous drugs AFTER they get those health problems. Aspirin is a drug and toxic. It causes uncontrollable bleeding and actually damages the function of Pi (spleen). Unfortunately, people nowadays are misled to take this &quot;toxin&quot; the rest of their lives because they are convinced that they won&#039;t get cardiovascular diseases. And this is supposed to be legal! More and more cancer patients die of over-treating by chemo drugs. Unfortunately, they are threatened to die in a certain length of time without taking chemotherapy. And this is supposed to be legal! This is completely ridiculous! 
Hope to listen to every Si Fu master&#039;s point of view in here! And may all wish everybody have a successful, healthy and prosperous year of Dragon!

                                           Kevin</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Delli, </p>
<p>You made a great point here! I always say to my patients and colleagues that studying herbs by isolating the effective extracts and therapeutic ingredients is not the correct approach. TCM originally uses four Qi, five Wei (flavours) and meridian attribution (Gui Jing) to describe herbs&#8217; function but not the ingredients such as ephedra or ephedine. Moreover, there are interactions between herbs in a formula decotion or other forms, which is exceptionally complicated and researching this by modern scientific ways are impracticable. It is like there is no way to find out what exactly meridians (Jing Luo) are by just &#8220;guessing&#8221; that they might be the communicative part of nervous system, circulatory system and lymph system. Therefore, it is completely wrong to regulate herbs under modern scientific standard. We should regulate the qualifications of practitioners instead of herbs. There is a Chinese term saying that every herb is more or less toxic (是藥三分毒shi yao san fen du). It&#8217;s very important that we should grasp what &#8220;toxin&#8221; means. First of all, the toxic effect is actually the therapeutic effect! Simply speaking, every herb has its yin or yang deviation, in another word, warm or cold nature, in order to correct the imbalance of yin and yang of the body. Hotter or colder means it is more toxic. Secondly, toxic effect is relative. Different people of different constitutions and syndrome differentiations have different response to the same &#8220;toxin&#8221;. To a person with yin deficiency and internal heat constitution, a piece of ginger is toxic for him or her. While a person suffering Bi syndrome with cold dampness and qi and blood deficiency, large amount of dried ginger and Fu zi are pleased for him or her. I used 20 grams of Ma huang (I usually use 2 to 4 grams in wind cold external syndromes and asthma) in a formula for a female patient who suffers dermatosclerosis for one year and she felt generally warm and significant released of joint pain and neck stiffness after taking the tea. Lastly, comparing to Chinese herbs, western drugs are more toxic. Ridiculously, people are willing to take them everyday! Nowadays, people don&#8217;t know yin and yang, don&#8217;t know balance, don&#8217;t know the rule of nature, don&#8217;t sleep until midnight, drink cold drinks and eat cold fruits everyday, they don&#8217;t know how to prevent hypertension, diabetes, high cholesteral and cancer, they are told and actually misled to take miscellaneous drugs AFTER they get those health problems. Aspirin is a drug and toxic. It causes uncontrollable bleeding and actually damages the function of Pi (spleen). Unfortunately, people nowadays are misled to take this &#8220;toxin&#8221; the rest of their lives because they are convinced that they won&#8217;t get cardiovascular diseases. And this is supposed to be legal! More and more cancer patients die of over-treating by chemo drugs. Unfortunately, they are threatened to die in a certain length of time without taking chemotherapy. And this is supposed to be legal! This is completely ridiculous!<br />
Hope to listen to every Si Fu master&#8217;s point of view in here! And may all wish everybody have a successful, healthy and prosperous year of Dragon!</p>
<p>                                           Kevin</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Z'ev Rosenberg</title>
		<link>http://deepesthealth.com/chinese-herbal-medicine/mahuang-ephedra-and-its-utter-legality-for-chinese-medicine-practitioners/#comment-2766</link>
		<dc:creator>Z'ev Rosenberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jan 2012 00:55:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deepesthealth.com/2009/mahuang-ephedra-and-its-utter-legality-for-chinese-medicine-practitioners/#comment-2766</guid>
		<description>The ephedra species you mention doesn&#039;t have the essential alkaloids the ma huang, therefore it is useless as a substitute in clinical practice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The ephedra species you mention doesn&#8217;t have the essential alkaloids the ma huang, therefore it is useless as a substitute in clinical practice.</p>
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		<title>By: Jay</title>
		<link>http://deepesthealth.com/chinese-herbal-medicine/mahuang-ephedra-and-its-utter-legality-for-chinese-medicine-practitioners/#comment-2730</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Dec 2011 18:16:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deepesthealth.com/2009/mahuang-ephedra-and-its-utter-legality-for-chinese-medicine-practitioners/#comment-2730</guid>
		<description>Ephedra viridis grows wild and can be harvested in bulk where I live.  I often make a simple tea that has surprisingly wonderful effects for the body and mind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ephedra viridis grows wild and can be harvested in bulk where I live.  I often make a simple tea that has surprisingly wonderful effects for the body and mind.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: The qualities and uses of the Chinese herb Mahuang / ephedraDeepest Health</title>
		<link>http://deepesthealth.com/chinese-herbal-medicine/mahuang-ephedra-and-its-utter-legality-for-chinese-medicine-practitioners/#comment-2622</link>
		<dc:creator>The qualities and uses of the Chinese herb Mahuang / ephedraDeepest Health</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Dec 2011 19:25:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deepesthealth.com/2009/mahuang-ephedra-and-its-utter-legality-for-chinese-medicine-practitioners/#comment-2622</guid>
		<description>[...] You may be interested to read an article I wrote about herbal access related to Mahuang &#8211; click this link to read more. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] You may be interested to read an article I wrote about herbal access related to Mahuang &#8211; click this link to read more. [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Ephedra</title>
		<link>http://deepesthealth.com/chinese-herbal-medicine/mahuang-ephedra-and-its-utter-legality-for-chinese-medicine-practitioners/#comment-2049</link>
		<dc:creator>Ephedra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Sep 2010 16:28:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deepesthealth.com/2009/mahuang-ephedra-and-its-utter-legality-for-chinese-medicine-practitioners/#comment-2049</guid>
		<description>I used ephedra for years with zero problems. I actually used it mainly for my breathing problems associated with asthma. This crackdown on a truly useful and innocent herb is completely unwarranted. I hope y&#039;all are able to make some progress on this issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I used ephedra for years with zero problems. I actually used it mainly for my breathing problems associated with asthma. This crackdown on a truly useful and innocent herb is completely unwarranted. I hope y&#8217;all are able to make some progress on this issue.</p>
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		<title>By: Stan Gardner, MD</title>
		<link>http://deepesthealth.com/chinese-herbal-medicine/mahuang-ephedra-and-its-utter-legality-for-chinese-medicine-practitioners/#comment-2048</link>
		<dc:creator>Stan Gardner, MD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 19:13:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deepesthealth.com/2009/mahuang-ephedra-and-its-utter-legality-for-chinese-medicine-practitioners/#comment-2048</guid>
		<description>One way for the FDA to limit the use of certain products is to make it illegal to sell them in the US, without limiting the physicians or others from using them.  Although I have not used mahuang in my alternative medicine practice, it seems a shame that qualified individuals that know how to use herbs correctly, and recognize their power in the body, are inhibited from helping people get and remain healthy.
Stan Gardner, MD
stangardnermd.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One way for the FDA to limit the use of certain products is to make it illegal to sell them in the US, without limiting the physicians or others from using them.  Although I have not used mahuang in my alternative medicine practice, it seems a shame that qualified individuals that know how to use herbs correctly, and recognize their power in the body, are inhibited from helping people get and remain healthy.<br />
Stan Gardner, MD<br />
stangardnermd.com</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Anna</title>
		<link>http://deepesthealth.com/chinese-herbal-medicine/mahuang-ephedra-and-its-utter-legality-for-chinese-medicine-practitioners/#comment-2046</link>
		<dc:creator>Anna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jan 2010 11:27:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deepesthealth.com/2009/mahuang-ephedra-and-its-utter-legality-for-chinese-medicine-practitioners/#comment-2046</guid>
		<description>If the mahuang herb can still be available Stateside, are there any directories that we can look up for suppliers for these? Can we then import this directly into the country?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the mahuang herb can still be available Stateside, are there any directories that we can look up for suppliers for these? Can we then import this directly into the country?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: The Shit</title>
		<link>http://deepesthealth.com/chinese-herbal-medicine/mahuang-ephedra-and-its-utter-legality-for-chinese-medicine-practitioners/#comment-2045</link>
		<dc:creator>The Shit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jan 2010 06:19:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deepesthealth.com/2009/mahuang-ephedra-and-its-utter-legality-for-chinese-medicine-practitioners/#comment-2045</guid>
		<description>Ephedra&#039;s harmful effects are over rated.  Unless your an athlete pushing himself to the limit in bball or football you aren&#039;t going to have and problems.  Been taking it for 6 years with great results.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ephedra&#8217;s harmful effects are over rated.  Unless your an athlete pushing himself to the limit in bball or football you aren&#8217;t going to have and problems.  Been taking it for 6 years with great results.</p>
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		<title>By: Delli</title>
		<link>http://deepesthealth.com/chinese-herbal-medicine/mahuang-ephedra-and-its-utter-legality-for-chinese-medicine-practitioners/#comment-2044</link>
		<dc:creator>Delli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Dec 2009 19:23:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deepesthealth.com/2009/mahuang-ephedra-and-its-utter-legality-for-chinese-medicine-practitioners/#comment-2044</guid>
		<description>Yes, this is a great issue to discuss, as many people seemed to be misinformed on this topic.  It seems as if when the ban started on supplements containing ephedrine after people died from misuse is when this whole issue came up.  I don&#039;t recall, but as far as I remember, I think only products with ephedrine, not ephedra were sited as dangerous. To me, this is even more reason as to why we should be promoting the use of whole herb plant parts being used in natural medicine instead of isolated chemical constituents that are standardized to promote &quot;maximum therapeutic results&quot;.  The reason these kinds of standardized extracts of isolated chemical components from natural substances are dangerous is because they don&#039;t contain all of the other chemical ingredients that are found naturally in the plant.  It is the delicate balance (in the right ratios) of these chemicals that naturally occur in the plant that prevent side effects as well as help to achieve the desired therapeutic actions.  Having said that, I am not implying that all whole herb products are completely void of side effects or toxicity.  Let&#039;s not forget that herbs where originally called du, or toxic in Chinese medicine.

For Portlanders, I believe you can obtain Mahuang from the Asian market on 65th and Powell.

As for substitutes, Dr. Jun Zhang says that Qianghuo can be susbstituted for Mahuang in some instances, but he hasn&#039;t really made clear to me under what circumstances, or in which formulas this is acceptable.

I hope the future holds the expansion of the use of these Chinese herbs, rather than more and more limitations on what we can use and how we can use it.  It is mostly up to practitioners and consumers to use these herbs appropriately to make sure that the FDA doesn&#039;t have any further reason to ban herbs for safety reasons.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, this is a great issue to discuss, as many people seemed to be misinformed on this topic.  It seems as if when the ban started on supplements containing ephedrine after people died from misuse is when this whole issue came up.  I don&#8217;t recall, but as far as I remember, I think only products with ephedrine, not ephedra were sited as dangerous. To me, this is even more reason as to why we should be promoting the use of whole herb plant parts being used in natural medicine instead of isolated chemical constituents that are standardized to promote &#8220;maximum therapeutic results&#8221;.  The reason these kinds of standardized extracts of isolated chemical components from natural substances are dangerous is because they don&#8217;t contain all of the other chemical ingredients that are found naturally in the plant.  It is the delicate balance (in the right ratios) of these chemicals that naturally occur in the plant that prevent side effects as well as help to achieve the desired therapeutic actions.  Having said that, I am not implying that all whole herb products are completely void of side effects or toxicity.  Let&#8217;s not forget that herbs where originally called du, or toxic in Chinese medicine.</p>
<p>For Portlanders, I believe you can obtain Mahuang from the Asian market on 65th and Powell.</p>
<p>As for substitutes, Dr. Jun Zhang says that Qianghuo can be susbstituted for Mahuang in some instances, but he hasn&#8217;t really made clear to me under what circumstances, or in which formulas this is acceptable.</p>
<p>I hope the future holds the expansion of the use of these Chinese herbs, rather than more and more limitations on what we can use and how we can use it.  It is mostly up to practitioners and consumers to use these herbs appropriately to make sure that the FDA doesn&#8217;t have any further reason to ban herbs for safety reasons.</p>
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		<title>By: G. Michael Reynolds</title>
		<link>http://deepesthealth.com/chinese-herbal-medicine/mahuang-ephedra-and-its-utter-legality-for-chinese-medicine-practitioners/#comment-2041</link>
		<dc:creator>G. Michael Reynolds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Dec 2009 21:17:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deepesthealth.com/2009/mahuang-ephedra-and-its-utter-legality-for-chinese-medicine-practitioners/#comment-2041</guid>
		<description>I covered this same subject back in August: http://lifegivingsword.net/2009/08/the-law-and-ma-huang/. Yet another issue where hearsay is ruling the industry rather than facts and sense. I use Ma Huang in granules (amongst other controversial substances) though I have to go through some small effort to get it. There are multiple OM organizations that need overhauls in the fact checking and initiative departments, hope we see it before long.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I covered this same subject back in August: <a href="http://lifegivingsword.net/2009/08/the-law-and-ma-huang/" rel="nofollow">http://lifegivingsword.net/2009/08/the-law-and-ma-huang/</a>. Yet another issue where hearsay is ruling the industry rather than facts and sense. I use Ma Huang in granules (amongst other controversial substances) though I have to go through some small effort to get it. There are multiple OM organizations that need overhauls in the fact checking and initiative departments, hope we see it before long.</p>
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		<title>By: Bonnie</title>
		<link>http://deepesthealth.com/chinese-herbal-medicine/mahuang-ephedra-and-its-utter-legality-for-chinese-medicine-practitioners/#comment-2040</link>
		<dc:creator>Bonnie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Dec 2009 20:50:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deepesthealth.com/2009/mahuang-ephedra-and-its-utter-legality-for-chinese-medicine-practitioners/#comment-2040</guid>
		<description>We started having trouble finding it several years ago. My office mate did most of the herbal formula creations and took care of the pharmacy.   I haven&#039;t seen it from any of my suppliers but haven&#039;t gone looking. Would love to have it back--you&#039;re right there are no substitutes when it&#039;s needed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We started having trouble finding it several years ago. My office mate did most of the herbal formula creations and took care of the pharmacy.   I haven&#8217;t seen it from any of my suppliers but haven&#8217;t gone looking. Would love to have it back&#8211;you&#8217;re right there are no substitutes when it&#8217;s needed.</p>
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