Comments on: The concept of constitution in Chinese herbal medicine

By: Does Chinese Medicine cure disease?Deepest Health

Does Chinese Medicine cure disease?Deepest Health — Thu, 29 Dec 2011 23:17:44 +0000

[...] on the part of the practitioner in their diagnostic process. Perhaps a poor understanding of the patient’s underlying body constitution is at work, or perhaps it’s just a very complicated [...]

By: Eric Grey

Eric Grey — Thu, 29 Sep 2011 22:18:58 +0000

Dean,

Thanks for your comments – most appreciated! I don’t think that my personal reservation has so much to do with being locked in a box, but more of a question of the reality of the designation. Am I incorrectly placing a constitutional diagnosis on a person and, thus, treating them incorrectly? I have seen practitioners do this, and have also seen them hold so tightly to their constitutional diagnosis that they cannot change treatment strategies even when it is harming the patient! I believe strongly in the existence and operation of archetypes, and believe the constitutional concept to be basically sound. It seems that it would need to depend on a fairly rigorous diagnostic model that is systematized and agreed upon. Because things like body type/facial diagnosis and other typical hallmarks of a constitutional method are not as well developed (or taught) in contemporary Chinese medicine education – it makes many of us wary.

At least, that’s my take.

Thanks again for your comment!

Eric

By: Dean Campbell

Dean Campbell — Wed, 28 Sep 2011 23:48:54 +0000

Eric,
I have come to CM via an Ayurvedic background which has a strong constitution model. It seem that CM practitioner often, like you describe don’t feel comfortable with a constitutional model. From my background I don’t quite understand this challenge. In Ayurveda we use it all the time without reservations, it doesn’t lock us into a box, it simple narrows thing down a bit. It really is helpful in simple understanding “where” someone is coming from….in that if their constitution is different than your, most likely their perspective/world view is much different than your own. Just a tool, not a burden. Thanks for the article, good stuff.

By: Cosinensis

Cosinensis — Tue, 22 Dec 2009 14:31:30 +0000

Some classification is surely necessary, although terms like “Chaihu person” are ridiculous indeed.

By: Dragon Blogger

Dragon Blogger — Sun, 20 Dec 2009 13:49:16 +0000

Though I don’t practice CM, I do read reviews of products and sometimes try unique methods to treat ailments I suffer from on occasion, this was the first time I found this blog and you have incredibly detailed and useful information.

By: G. Michael Reynolds

G. Michael Reynolds — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 18:59:37 +0000

One of my students appeared the other day at a tea session with Huang Huang’s work. Wow, this families thing is really spreading if it’s made it al the way out here!

By: Michael Max

Michael Max — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 21:03:47 +0000

Z’ev

I just posted something on http://www.classicformulas.com about the book. Actually, it will be part of a series as the more I dig into this book, the more I am finding some really interesting stuff. It talks about BOTH channel level and formula presentation. Plus it is full of case studies that in essence use a bit of both approaches to diagnose.
Michael

By: Z'ev Rosenberg

Z'ev Rosenberg — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 17:13:41 +0000

There is also a section at the beginning of the Jia Yi Jing on constitution, it may well be derived from Ling Shu 64, I’ll check. However, the constitutional archetypes of Ling Shu/Jia Yi Jing are different from those that Huang Huang postulates from the Shang Han Lun, and seemingly from Kampo influences.

By: brandon brown

brandon brown — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 04:37:29 +0000

Hi all,

I’m glad to see a post about this eric. I’m actually writing my thesis on the topic (specifically the 4 fires), so i’ll share much more when I’m done. But an interesting starting point is Ling Shu 64, where the 25 types of people are introduced.

By: Z'ev Rosenberg

Z'ev Rosenberg — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 15:55:15 +0000

Michael,
Can you give us a short survey of the SHL text you uncovered plus title, etc.? Sounds fascinating.
It is very interesting that not only Huang Huang, but historical figures like Todo Yoshimasu in Japan, had a very practical, hands-on view of the SHL, but others were more theoretical in their approach. It appears to be a text flexible enough to allow different approaches to the material. What someone from the China trip with Huang Huang told me was that he felt that a very practical approach to the SHL was necessary. However, I don’t think he understood that Westerners don’t ‘grok’ six channel theory, it is not innate to us as it may be to him or other Chinese practitioners. Or perhaps he has just absorbed and assimilated six channel theory to the point where it is part of his core ‘software’ approach. I personally like using the theory to ground my diagnosis as to location, depth, progression and direction of disease patterns, rather than just a ‘here-now’ approach. In my understanding, such rubrics as six channel allow us to see the progression of disorders, and see more complex conditions as combination diseases.

By: Michael Max

Michael Max — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 12:34:40 +0000

Sometimes I think Huang’s work is like a Macintosh computer; elegant, powerful, and easy to use. Because, in some ways what he teaches lacks a peek at the underlying mechanics of what is going on. I think it is there, in that he has thought about it and used it to form his clinical methods. But, if you really want to get deeper into how it relates with various levels, other resources will need to be accessed.

Huang himself has studied long and hard, and his clinical methods are based on a number of sources, including some from Japan. Like him, to really go deeply into our work we will need to study and pull from different streams of thought.

I recently found some books here in China on “jing fang,” one in particular that goes through the Shang Han Lun line by line and “decodes” it as which level of illness it is describing. I’m not sure we have anything quite like this in English. But, if we do, it would be a good place to dig in. Maybe Z’ev has some recommendations.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 20:12:39 +0000

Hi Z’ev,

I agree with you that the constitution is important. Without considering the individual’s body constitution we are not truly working on a holistic level. I believe Chinese medical theory is very much about holism, since it is about how everything in the body is connected, and how the body is connected to, and a reflection of nature. Constitution is a major reason why two people who get sick at the same time and in the same place can manifest with different symptoms. Everybody’s body will respond different to a pathogen and present different symptoms based on what the individual’s terrain is like. Ultimately, I think we need to understand the disease pattern in relation to the body’s constitution or else we are not fully practicing medicine the way the sages intended it to be- holistic. This seems to be one of the weaknesses of the SHL approach, as I feel it doesn’t explain individual constitutions, but focuses on pattern differentiation. In my opinion, we need to focus on the disease pattern (tips and branches), but we must understand them in relation to the constitution (the trunk and roots). If we only understand one or the other, or see them as separate, then I don’t think we are fully understanding the whole picture, and thus the results of the treatment will not be as good as they should be.

By: Z'ev Rosenberg

Z'ev Rosenberg — Fri, 13 Nov 2009 23:22:16 +0000

I also think constitution is important. In rapidly shifting exterior conditions, constitution can provide an anchor, as people tend to get sick in repeatable patterns. some get sore throats right away, some diarrhea and bloating, etc. However, these patterns can also shift into unknown territory quickly, and then we really need to know our theory, such as six channel differentiation of SHL/JGYL. I enjoy the ‘Ten Formula Families’ text a lot, but was disappointed that he doesn’t really go into six channel theory behind his work. I prefer Arnaud Versluy’s work because he bases everything on six channel theory, and it seems to work much better for how I practice.

By: G. Michael Reynolds

G. Michael Reynolds — Fri, 13 Nov 2009 03:17:17 +0000

I am very impressed with the homeopathic constitution picture painted by Luc De Schepper. Each individual remedy’s picture is so fully fleshed out that it becomes somewhat easy to be able to view their constitution and the pathological layers that sit on top of it, obstructing their natural state of being. While this doesn’t IMMEDIATELY translate into a CM treatment protocol, it does give one a wealth of necessary information for understanding the patient, which of course is the vital thing for getting any sort of real progress with the case. This I think is primarily due to the Jungian psychoanalysis emphasis, which of course points toward Leon Hammer and Dragon Rises Red Bird Flies.

I like what the late Dr. Edward Whitmont said about all this, that we are dealing with Form that existed before form. We are trying to perceive that a priori Form and assist its never-ending efforts to exert itself upon the physical terrain it has been assigned to. That’s the real point of all this talk about constitution, right?

By: CTK

CTK — Thu, 12 Nov 2009 20:30:54 +0000

I love to look at the way I practice. I find myself using my intuition to guide me. But where did all of this intuition come from? From internalizing what my teachers taught me…and truly believing in what was passed down to me.

I like to look at the way someone describes their pain (for example) and the way they hold their arm. Points and ideas start popping into my head right away!

…but it is definitely a balance between the verbal information of what the patient is giving you versus (or plus or minus) what we as practitioners pick up on.

By: Ross Rosen

Ross Rosen — Thu, 12 Nov 2009 20:12:07 +0000

Hi Eric,
I think the idea of constitution is very important (of course, not the pigeon-holing part). The roots of our medicine speak strongly to the aspects of astrology and morphology. Indeed, even the triple burner mechanism’s responsibility of siphoning yuan qi to the respective shu points is significant in this regard. Not all shu points get equal amounts. If one is more of a wood morphology-type, BL 18 will get a more substantial portion of yuan qi. It is what sets one’s destiny. Being a wood type may be that person’s lesson in this life. His/her curriculum may depend on it. So, of course we should take that into account. And similarly, of course we shouldn’t be fixated on the fact he/she is a wood constitution and only see this person through that particular lens. But it does to some degree shape one’s personality, one’s challenges, one’s strengths, one’s view of the world and one’s perception.

Another aspect is to understand that people travel through their lives generally in fairly habitual patterns and roadways. Jeffrey Yuen talks about this in terms of the meridian systems. Some people are left lane drivers, others right lane drivers. Some travel the major highways, others travel the side roads, etc. This can also implicate which meridian systems are most active for these individuals. Do they spend their time mostly on the sinew meridians, luo vessels (very emotional), divergent meridians, etc. So I think these are important factors to consider…..

I have read most of the 10 Formula Families book. I wrote a blog post on it not too long ago. I like it.
http://rossrosen.blogspot.com/2009/10/formula-families.html

By: Michael Max

Michael Max — Thu, 12 Nov 2009 15:35:39 +0000

I find for myself that one of the tricks is not to get too attached to the lenses, methods or filters we use in the process of doing our work. Use what is useful when it is appropriate.

In clinical work we need to arrive quickly at some kind of conclusion, otherwise how can we treat our patients? I find I rarely have enough information to completely understand the patient’s condition, but I usually can get enough to get started. This is where constitution can come in very handy!

By: Eric

Eric — Thu, 12 Nov 2009 15:10:26 +0000

I like the idea of a lens, Max, I think I used the same word in my post. It feels precisely like that – suddenly, with the right lens, things come into greater focus. It’s helpful as a student (as Jason mentioned) but also as a practitioner. I think my struggle will be to avoid jumping to conclusions too quickly, and to let all the information come in before I think myself too clever.

I really appreciate all the comments on this post and hope to read more!

Eric

By: Michael Max

Michael Max — Thu, 12 Nov 2009 15:00:51 +0000

I don’t think the practice of medicine is about putting people in boxes, asking them to conform to a theory, squeezing them into a category, or taming them into a stereotype. It is more about discovering something about who they deeply are, how they make sense to themselves, and us and the world.

Somehow in this process we need to find a way to focus our clinical eye. Like a navigator needs a compass, we need a way to know that which is steady and that which changes. Constitution, on one hand, can lead us to the trap of dropping people into a box and deciding we are clever for figuring their “type”, on the other hand it can be a powerful way of getting a sense of a patient’s overall disposition and tendencies. It is NOT cast in stone, but neither is it readily malleable. It is a way to help rule out, or rule in certain clinical options. It can help us to make sense of why certain formulas work for some people and not others. It is simply a lens; one of many, that helps us to be effective in our clinical work.

By: Jason (@allpraxis)

Jason (@allpraxis) — Thu, 12 Nov 2009 06:24:55 +0000

Boxes are seductive things. I know I love when things neat and orderly, but what medical student doesn’t? As a beginning student of CM, I feel like I have to learn about the boxes to have something to work with, even if I know I’ll have to break them later. Oh, and great analogy, Bonnie!

By: Bonnie

Bonnie — Thu, 12 Nov 2009 04:16:55 +0000

Ah I was hoping people would have started commenting! I get to leave town (and have internet only via my phone for awhile). I know that very often as we peel away layers of symptoms we often get to a very different branch of what is going on. Sometimes it has to do with what the patient brings to the consult–they emphasize things that they think are important. I don’t know how many patients think that something isn’t a symptom because they know it’s a medication side effect. Still–this tells me about their overall picture NOW.

When we start classifying people, there is something nice and tidy for us. However, our mind starts getting frustrated when the person doesn’t stay in their nice little box. Rather than thinking of the constitution as the box, think of finding the right section of the library stacks to find a book–there are still hundreds of books, all different but only one copy of the book you are looking for. Each is unique–they are just classified that this is the closest place they can live.

In research, we very often find books that are helpful to us in parts of the library we never expect to see them, largely because of the way they were classified by the Library of Congress. In the same way, some patients present like they should be one thing, but are really another–it’s not until we read the whole book that we may find out why it was classified to go in one section rather than another.

But wonderful food for thought! I can’t wait to see how everyone else chimes in!