Deepest Health Chinese Medicine Podcast : Interview with Dr. Arnaud Versluys LAc, PhD (Part 2 of 3)
I’m glad so many people enjoyed the first episode of this podcast interview with Dr. Arnaud Versluys LAc, PhD. The second part finds Dr. Versluys expanding on his definition of Classical Chinese medicine by discussing how one uses the Shang Han Lun in contemporary clinical practice, particularly concerning complex diseases typically seen in modern times. He also discusses the importance of specializing in a particular style of Chinese medicine and gives some advice to those of us seeking knowledge in this profession. I think you’ll really enjoy the information AND the audio quality - I think I finally got it right. :) Check it out at the bottom of this article!
If you missed the first part of the interview with Dr. Versluys you can find it here. For more background on the six conformations read the article linked here. I also encourage you to check out Dr. Versluys’ website, particularly the forums - a great place for discussing Canonical Chinese Medicine.
Dr. Versluys uses a few names that may be unfamiliar to listeners - I want to clarify these things for you. Li Dong Yuan is the author of The Treatise on the Spleen and Stomach (Pi Wei Lun)
and Jin Gui Yao Lue
I’ll release the final part of the interview early next week - it’s a short piece focusing specifically on the issue of herb substitution and the possibility of growing Chinese herbs in the United States. I hope you enjoy today’s podcast! As always, feel free to leave any comments - discussion is a great thing! :)
Eric
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Tags: arnaud versluys, ccm, herbs, interview, Learning, Podcast, six conformations, tcm, versluys, Zhang Zhong JingRelated posts
Chinese herb substitution and using local species
I thank you all for your patience as I adjust to my workload. The reality of the situation is that I’m going to have to post what I can, when I can. But, with the onset of clinic I find myself coming up with many new thoughts to share - I’ll do my best to get them up in a timely fashion. Look also for the return of the podcast this week. I know you’ve missed me. :)
Anyway, in a fantastic lecture by Dr. Arnaud Versluys this weekend, I was reinspired to consider a very real problem in Chinese herbal medicine. We use herbs that travel long distances, are sometimes beset with chemical and heavy metal toxicity, are sometimes banned by ill-informed government agencies and some of which are becoming rare and, thus, expensive. Given that I am very serious about a rigorously authentic Shang Han Lun
The particular herb that came up in discussion about this issue was Xi Xin - Asarum - Wild Ginger. I love this herb. It’s used in a couple of indispensible formulas, perhaps most importantly in Dang Gui Si Ni Tang. Most herbalists agree that there’s simply no substitute for Xi Xin, but I’ve seen or heard of people try to replace it with Wu Tou, Yu Jin, Sheng Jiang + Mai Men Dong (?!) and other interesting combinations. Most of these same herbalists agree that it’s simply not the same without Xi Xin.
The ban on Xi Xin for practitioners is ridiculous to the extreme and I’m not going to discuss that here. What I would like to hear people discuss is how they make substitutions in these cases. When an herb you need isn’t around, what do you do? What herbs have you had to learn to live without? I understand that UK herbalists are quite restricted in what they can prescribe - how have my UK readers dealt with this problem? Even when a governmental agency isn’t busy interfering, we sometimes lose herbs. Consider Xi Jiao, rhino horn. Consider the precarious state of Ren Shen, ginseng.
There are a couple of associated questions that come up when one considers this issue. One is - should we simply learn to work with fewer, simpler herbs? Dr. Versluys is known to say that he thinks he could do a fair job of treating patients with only 10 herbs - a set of cooling herbs in each of five flavors and a corresponding set of warming herbs. If you know formula science and architecture, such artistry is certainly possible. Is this the standard towards which we should strive? It seems far superior to the never ending quest for the “perfect herb for cancer” or memorizing five hundred herbs, over half of which are specialized for particular symptoms.
Taking this a little bit farther, we should consider the wisdom of relying on herb sources that can only be accessed by air shipments from another continent. Given peak oil, given the unstable political nature of our planet, given the environmental crisis we find ourselves in… should we at least consider the possibility that we may need to rely on local sources for our herbs at some point in the future?
My friend said an interesting thing to me today. In the course of discussing this various issue he said, “To be true Classical Chinese herbalists, we should use the herbs we find around us.” I didn’t question him any farther on this issue, but I think he’s right from some perspectives. Learning the Chinese herbs and formula science so deeply that it is second nature allows us to look at all plants, animals and minerals with the eyes of a Classical Chinese herbalist. Then it seems at least possible that we could, if necessary, find other materials that meet the needs of our patients.
I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on this rambling post. Doubtless there are many opinions out there - share them here on Deepest Health by responding in the comments. No registration is necessary and you can even post anonymously if you are respectful.
Thanks for reading,
Eric
Tags: chinese-herb, chinese-herbs, environment, flavors, formulas, herbs, nature, versluysRelated posts
What do my personal finances have to do with Classical Chinese herbal formulas?
As part of my February Year of Sagely Living commitment, I am listening to Steven Covey’s Principle Centred Leadership
As I prepare for launching my professional career, I’ve been trying to clean up my personal finances. I have plenty of debt (mostly from school) and I haven’t always attended to my financial health. I’ve tried in the past to keep to a budget, to clean up my credit and to live frugally, but I haven’t always been particularly successful. It seems in this year of the Rat, full of energy for cutting away old habits and launching new ones, I have been given new life for this part of my life. Within the last month, I was introduced to the financial philosophy of Dave Ramsey and his Total Money Makeover
Dave Ramsey offers old time advice. Save money for a rainy day. Don’t rely on others to take care of you! Look out for your future. Small sacrifices now reap huge benefits in the future. A penny saved is a penny earned (and then some, in certain cases!) Often simple thoughts are dismissed as sound in a time OTHER than the one we are living in. They are thought to be interesting, but antiquated. In the financial world, it seems that savvy modern people use credit to their advantage. They game the market. Sometimes it seems that there’s a latent idea that savvy, hip, and especially young people don’t worry about tomorrow - or at best, they employ some misunderstood principle of the “Law of Attraction” to bring them what they will need when their gambles don’t pay off. Dave Ramsey, with lots of huffing and puffing, brings a timely and easily understood message to all of the above - don’t be stupid. Take care of yourself.
For me, the philosophy resonates very strongly with what I’m learning about Chinese herbal formulas. Funny, right? The philosophy is, in essence - don’t try to get savvy and creative with things until you are absolutely certain you understand the principles. This is such an unpopular idea that it’s probably hard for many people to comprehend.
But, please, learn the principles! Learn them so thoroughly that you’re loathe to leave their stead. With Dave Ramsey you learn simple principles - no credit, pay cash, focus on debt payoff and preparation for the future first, delay gratification, focus on a simple and principle focused life. He teaches a program and that program, when lived, drives the principles very deep indeed. Eventually you will run into situations that the program didn’t give you specific practices to implement - and that’s ok. Because you know the principles so well that the creativity you spontaneously exhibit is absolutely in line with the wisdom you’ve received.
The same is true of formulas, at least how I am learning them from Dr. Versluys. For the next ten or fifteen years, I will have one focus with regards to Chinese herbalism. Learn, use and seek to understand the classical formulas. This does include original modifications, modification formulas, and the basic formula combination principles that are apparent within Zhang Zhong Jing’s writing. Sometimes these formulas will be applied to situations that aren’t exactly spelled out and that’s ok. As the formulas and their language become utterly embedded in my psyche - creativity will naturally emerge. That creativity will be absolutely rooted in undeniable wisdom, it will have grown naturally, with no attempt to rush, with no worry that the basics won’t suffice.
Eric
Tags: chinese-herb, commitment, habits, Leadership, Learning, money, philosophy, versluys, Year of Sagely LivingRelated posts
Don’t call it a comeback
Wow, sorry folks. I didn’t consciously stop blogging which tells you that I must be pretty busy. :) This term has been a lot more intense than I expected it to be - mostly because I’m so engaged in everything that I’m learning that I don’t even WANT to do anything but study (aside from stuff with my family). However, I have plenty to share and over the weekend I’m going to be doing my best to write a few articles. I’ll give you a quick preview as well as open up a discussion about different approaches to herbal medicine.
What’s coming up on Deepest Health?
1. Report on the Student Caucus at the AAAOM Conference in Portland. // I’ll just go over what I took away from all the student networking that went on at the conference and my hopes for a stronger, broader professional Chinese medicine community in the United States and beyond.
2. Review of the Acupuncture Desk Reference, a good looking little book put together by David J. Kuoch. // It’s a good attempt at a basic reference book helpful for students and new practitioners. I’ll share what I love and what I think could be improved.
3. Review of the beautiful “Living Meridian” charts available from the folks at The Fifth Element. // I’ll discuss my experiences using the charts in keeping up with my points study and some recommendations for getting the most out of this useful study tool.
4. Review of Blue Poppy Press’ release of a new translation of Yi Lin Gai Cuo, a fascinating work in relatively modern Chinese medicine. // I’ll consider how this book might be useful to students and how it has expanded my understanding of both the history and content of our profession.
5. Discussion about the future of health care in North America and what place I see for Chinese medicine in the overall fabric of medical practice.
6. Many discussions that have come from this term of school including: balancing competing teacher perspectives, the importance of humility in learning and practicing medicine, developing peer relationships in a busy world and comparison of electronic and low-tech methods of study and organization.
I hope you’ll stick around.
A broad question about Chinese herbal medicine practice
I have been learning quite a bit about Chinese formula science these last weeks. This information combined with what I had already integrated through study and watching patients in the clinic has led me to a few conclusions. The first, and most important, is that the “broad spectrum” approach represented by many more contemporary formulas (for instance, RenShen Bai Du San 入參敗毒散 ) is fundamentally bankrupt. It wasn’t until my teacher Arnaud Versluys suggested to us the similarity between the approach of this class of formulas to the use of broad spectrum antibiotics that I really understood how important this principle is for the integrity of our medicine.
Where Zhang Zhong Jing’s formulas were extremely tight in structure, extremely focused and strong in action, “broad spectrum” formulas can hardly be said to have a structure and seem to want to be everything to everybody. They are the John Kerry of the herbal medicine world (sorry John). They seem to characterize a way of looking at medicine that says, “Hey, we don’t REALLY know what’s going on at all, so let’s just cover all of our bases and see what happens.” The fact is that most people do improve, over the short term, with these formulas. Their root pathology, however, may simply sink beneath the surface only to eat away at vital substances and/or resurface at some later time with renewed ferocity. Why not improve our diagnostic skills, improve our understanding of the science behind our medicine and be confident enough in our diagnoses that we can prescribe strong, focused and time-tested formulas?
I don’t know enough to say that all non-Han dynasty formulas are worthless, baseless or are going to harm people in the long run. In fact, I’m sure that’s not the case. But why (and here’s my question to you) not learn very well the principles behind truly Classical formulas, pay careful attention to their clinical effects and proceed in that direction? I would love to hear your thoughts in the comments.
Eric
Tags: Acupuncture, Blogging, book-review, books, Character, chinese-herb, formula-science, formulas, herbs, professional-development, versluysRelated posts
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